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post #141 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XCNuse View Post
Color did you ever put them side by side to compare their lengths and / or the motion ratios comparatively when mounted on the car?

The CS isn't as stiff as the TriPoint though right?
Makes sense to me; gained slight body roll vs the stiffer tripoint bar.

I wonder why some people struggle to get oversteer with the tripoint bar; it seems more than enough?
Well some people struggle due to their other suspension parts.. Ride height plays a huge roll n shocks and springs as well.. On stock suspension with a tripoint bar.. The body wants to roll while the bar is trying to stop it.. As you know the stock suspension is soft even with such high stiffness the tripoint bar cannot make the car oversteer but it can cure the understeer to a certain point.. Is what I think


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post #142 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2013, 01:36 PM
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@XCNuse Understeer/oversteer is very driving-dependent, when driven like a RWD (brake in a straight line, turn in as you lift OFF the brake) then of course it's going to understeer, as the weight transfer is directly working against the front wheels. Many people don't think about that. If you stay somewhat on the brakes as you turn in the car will tuck in much better, and you don't need as stiff a RSB.

Particular to my car I've also got everything in the front set to maximize front grip -- springs on the soft side of ideal, low roll center, high rake, close to ideal camber, toe out, stock 2.0L sway and stock flimsy endlinks. Combination of all that is a good guess as to why I can't take away as much grip from the rear before oversteering.


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Last edited by color0; 08-15-2013 at 01:39 PM.
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post #143 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-15-2013, 10:53 PM
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Racing Beat impressed me because they test their bars and encourage you to install both front and rear as a package. Their tested kit with front and rear bars gives you a controlled neutral feel with better steering response and cornering. If you put a bigger bar in just the rear, no matter what brand, you are risking over-steer, especially at high speed where it can break loose suddenly, and that can be really dangerous.
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post #144 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 03:57 AM
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My 2 cents on that: Coming from an RC/touring car background, a single manufacturer's testing results or recommendations won't hold a candle to a good database of working chassis/suspension setups. There are so many factors to account for that you'll always have a better setup after figuring out for yourself what the tune should look like. It's the same difference between off-the-shelf maps for the MS3 AP vs. custom-tuned maps.

@XCNuse -- I went back and grabbed the two RSB's for a motion ratio measurement. The holes on the CS and Tri-Point bars line up pretty closely (well within 1cm), neglecting the hard setting on the Tri-Point which is just too far in IMO.


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post #145 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-16-2013, 07:58 AM
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Cool; I assume / bet most if not all sway bars are that close to each other anyways (they kind of have to be lol)

As far as Racing Beat "testing" goes; I seriously it was tested that much. Let me clarify; absolutely they were tested, but not to the same effect that someone like @color0 and I are looking for / aiming for.
I absolutely guarantee that it keeps the car flat as my hotchkis did or somewhere nearabouts, which is probably okay for when you get sick on some mountain or curvy roads, but enough evidence has come up to support that the weakest or no bar is probably best for our car.

Again going back to how your car is set up, yes a rear sway can 100% ABSOLUTELY cause oversteer, which is probably dangerous for.. 95% of the people on these 3 forums, especially if you don't know what to do in said situation. Enough accidents happen a day. If you know you aren't that great of a driver; don't tempt it, it's simple as that. When I do mountain runs with my locals I know who the good and bad drivers are, and try to keep people away from those; some thing can happen on a trackday, where someone spins around, you may not see them until the next corner, and the worst that can happen there is you don't see them in time to brake or avoid them.

The problem with adding any front bar is it's decreasing grip.. no matter how you see it, that's what it does, and I proved that very quickly when I disconnected my hotchkis bar and went for a drive.

Now you have to keep in mind vehicle height also has a major major major factor in how our cars handle, also recently proven quite well with my changes again.
Anything lower than Prokit (and I still think even the prokit), is damaging to the car's handling, where it feels like you're increasing the amount of roll the front receives, but that isn't the case, the movement of the arms are absolutely still there, you just receive the feeling differently in the cabin.

So despite whatever RB "tested" (seriously I have nothing against them, but we don't know what they were looking for, but it's clear it wasn't increased grip), chances are it isn't helping the way you think it is, not performance wise.

And likely, all they tested was that it actually fit.. like most other companies that would rather spend most of their efforts on making a product they can sell and make sure it actually fits, vs a true testing and wasting money before throwing it on the market.
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post #146 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-17-2013, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pstone View Post
Installed the Racing Beat RSB this weekend. The car now stays very level, and it keeps me from sliding in the leather seats as much. Great mod for the price. Now if I could just wear out the factory tires so I could justify some decent summer tires.
Hehe.. I feel the same way, just bought my M3 a few months ago. Am really thinking of buying some Summer tires from Tire Rack and putting my factory ones on Craigs list. They are almost new, only about 1k miles on them. I would think I could at least get $25/ea for them... what do you guys think?
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post #147 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-17-2013, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doane2u View Post
Hehe.. I feel the same way, just bought my M3 a few months ago. Am really thinking of buying some Summer tires from Tire Rack and putting my factory ones on Craigs list. They are almost new, only about 1k miles on them. I would think I could at least get $25/ea for them... what do you guys think?
At that price they should go quickly. Do it!
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post #148 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 04:39 PM
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At that price they should go quickly. Do it!
Did it... putting them on tomorrow evening!
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post #149 of 149 (permalink) Old 08-27-2013, 11:15 PM
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Amazing!

I've been driving these just over a week now and I'm amazed at the difference in many areas compared to the stock tires. I drove these down to the Mazdafest at Willow Springs and they handled great on the track. I'm noticing much more accurate and faster steering response, but what was most noticeable to me in ride quality is the huge difference in road noise. On the same stretch of noisy highway/freeways, the noise level is probably 1/2 what it was before... it really blows me away how quite the car is now.
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