2nd Gen Skyactive in 2017? - 2004 to 2016 Mazda 3 Forum and Mazdaspeed 3 Forums
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
hoodlum
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2nd Gen Skyactive in 2017?

I didn't think it was coming this quickly.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2016...ntain-mpg-lead

Moro said the second generation of Skyactiv, which should be unveiled in 2017, will be the main driver toward meeting 2021 standards. Skyactiv 2 will use homogenous-charge compression ignition combustion engines, a technology that mimics the compression in diesel engines, which should further improve efficiency in gasoline engines.

But HCCI engines are a very difficult and delicate technology, Moro said, so Mazda is working to ensure the engines are durable.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
hoodlum
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Mazda wants to focus on Torque over HP with the next version of sky-active, so I wouldn't expect to see much improvements in HP going forward.

Mazda?s New NA Chief Shifts Focus: Brand Loyalty Beats Volume | Industry content from WardsAuto

Moro says Mazda will prioritize driver-pleasing torque over horsepower in its second-gen SkyActiv engines expected before the end of the decade.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by hoodlum View Post
Mazda wants to focus on Torque over HP with the next version of sky-active, so I wouldn't expect to see much improvements in HP going forward.
Even as an enthusiast I'm OK with that, as i rarely wind up the engine up to 6k or whatever. If I can get more power in the low or mid range i'm good with that. As an example if I got a tune on my car car, the last thing i'd want to focus on is top end HP, would much prefer broader gains that help with 90% of my driving.

The HCCI they are going with is pretty interesting, been following this since I first heard about in 2014. It really seems like if it can be reliable they'll have a big advantage in the regular gasoline engine segment with this.


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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 03:18 PM
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Really fascinating. Thx for posting!

2014 3iSport HB 2.0L (155 hp) 6AT | Liquid Silver Metallic | bone-stock | jinba ittai 人馬一體


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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 03:44 PM
bentin
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I guess I'm the voice of dissent. My 2006 3i loved to rev. It was torqueless and easy to catch sleeping, but fun when pushed. My 2016 3S is sort of the opposite, easy to be lazy about, but not much fun to push hard as it's sort of the asthmatic kid who runs out of breathe quickly. Casual driving is great, but I guess I'm not casual often enough to enjoy it. Going even lazier would be a huge turn off for me, the audience for the CX9 may like that approach, but using that for the 3 crowd seems really misguided. Meanwhile, BMW is showing a fwd sedan (currently for China only), but clearly the world is ending.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bentin View Post
I guess I'm the voice of dissent. My 2006 3i loved to rev. It was torqueless and easy to catch sleeping, but fun when pushed.

Sounds like the exact description of my 2008 RX-8. It was so fun because you had to wring it out to get power - Totally get where you are coming from there and preach the same thing about it's fun to drive nature.

But in that car i was not concerned to red line it all day everyday - it's a rotary. I don't want to have to do the same to this I-4 to get pushed back in my seat - at least as long as it's my daily driver, i prefer getting that oomph without dogging it out. Probably just getting old!


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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 04:17 PM
bentin
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Well, the easy answer is as simple as what nearly every other manufacturer has arrived at. A turbo. My wife's got a 2016 328i, and I drove it for a month while my car was in the body shop. Smaller engine, 500+ extra pounds to drag around, yet it has nearly 50% more power and gets better mileage, all while being laughably faster than my poor car.

I love engineering, but when the easy answer has only upsides and no downsides, why go about it the hard way? The BMW engine revs so much better than mine, and revs 800 rpm higher, while still making power up there. But it makes gobs more torque down low. Yes, there's a tiny bit of lag, but the Mazda has a lazy throttle sensor that isn't any better, and that's always there, not like turbo lag that's only there when you catch the turbo unspooled.

I like the 2.5l, but I chose it in what appears to be a misguided preference for natural aspiration over forced induction. I wanted the revs and quick throttle response of my previous n/a motors, but instead got the low end torque and sometimes lazy throttle response of a turbo mill, but lost the high revs and linear power delivery.

Just for the record, torqueless has a whole new meaning when talking about rotaries. My dad's still got his FD RX7, and when it's here in Dallas, in 100+ heat, with the a/c running, it's a new definition of torqueless. Scary is more apt. Then you get walloped with turbos and you're looking out of the side windows.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 06:20 PM
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More torque? Yes please! Can't drive fast enough on public roads to make more hp worthwhile.... At least here in Canada not realistically.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-19-2016, 05:43 PM
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Mazda's EV resistance may mean CAFE trouble ahead - Autoblog

"...Mazda plans to unveil the second-generation version of Skyactiv next year. Using a technology called 'homogenous-charge compression ignition' (HCCI), Mazda's gas-powered engines will approximate the compression in diesel engines, boosting fuel economy accordingly. Because of that development, Mazda's Moro is 'very confident' that the company will meet the US Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) mandate for 2021. With no plans for US plug-ins or hybrids (Mazda's only hybrid, a variant of the Mazda3, is sold in Japan), Moro is not so sure about meeting the 2025 CAFE mandate of 54.5 mpg (which equates to a 'real world' fuel economy of about 40 mpg). Additionally, Mazda's 'biggest regulatory headache' will be meeting California's mandate that 15 percent of the state's new-vehicle sales be zero-emissions within the next decade."


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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 10:19 AM
bentin
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I've said it before, but it bears repeating. The Wankel is pretty much the ideal engine for a hybrid setup. Bolster the torque with batteries and let the engine run at higher rpm to avoid the oil weeping that occurs at lower rpm at the apex seals. If Mazda really is serious about bringing back a rotary, not doing a hybrid version would be a shame. Provided they can steal a Honda engineer to make sure they figure out how to offer it with all three pedals.
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