My question is how hard are you braking sideways and why? If you doing it too hard I can see why major oversteer is occurring and can easily make you spin... why wouldn't you just keep throttle on with a stiffer rear sway to keep the car balanced and brake hard before the turn slowing down enough? What's the need to brake sideways or mid-corner? I'm just confused on your driving tactics that is all.
I can assure you I'm not jamming the brakes to yank the car sideways lol. It's just trail braking, just enough so that the rear starts to rotate.
I'll have to draw more pictures to explain clearly, but let's say we have identical cars, but you have a stiffer rear sway. You do slow down before the corner, and I slow down as I turn in, but I do turn in earlier (traditional racing line vs. minimum-distance line).
Off the bat, we should agree that I instantly gain 1 car length on you via the corner entry, and you'll have to make up for all that distance mid-corner and exit. You do have more corner speed, and you have a better setup to power out of the corner with, but there are two problem conditions:
A) The Skyactiv engine has no power.
B) The front tires are already fully loaded mid-corner, so power will just cause understeer.
To catch up, you have to get around these two conditions, but that's where I gave up.
1) Even if your better balance allows you to apply power neutrally, the overloaded front AND rear tires will just wash out in a nice four-wheel-drift, which scrubs speed.
2) If you keep the fronts within their limits, you don't have an advantage because I'm doing that too. You have to somehow get more cornering grip out of the fronts, which requires a different setup.
3) There's no line advantage either because the Skyactiv has no power, and the way to go fast on exit is to minimize the distance you have to travel.
The end result is that you and I will have the same exit line, but you took a wider entry line, sacrificing entry speed for exit speed. You start closing the distance only after the corner exit. On a racetrack, where corners are flanked by straight-ish sectors, this makes perfect sense; the faster you catapult onto the straightaway the less you have to struggle with the car's mediocre power. But the canyon is one corner after the other, whatever exit speed you gained (remember, Skyactiv -- not a whole lot) will be scrubbed off within 1-2 seconds, and if you brake earlier than I do, the advantage will erase itself. Each time you give me another car length, that disadvantage will add up over the course of 15 miles.
I have of course tried to use different techniques to approach corners, and yes the Tri-Point sway forced me to finish braking before the turns to avoid turn-in instability. You can declare that I wasn't used to the way the car handled (true!), but mid-corner I wasn't able to extract any more corner speed from the car than before, exactly in line with points 1) and 2) above. I was barely able to run away from cars that I've lost sight of in three turns. I'd have to become a helluva driver to manage the rear better upon turn-in, and that's something I am not game enough to practice in the canyons, knowing the consequences (happened twice already).
Sin_loki this is where you come in, all of the above ^ is the reason why I can't accept your well-intentioned advice. I put my life on the line to do my own testing, and what meager, unscientific results I do get don't agree with a lot of traditional circuit technique.
The other, and irrefutable, reason why sideways braking stability is critical is because canyons are not a prepared course. You never know what you'll meet in the canyons. If you have to panic-brake and veer outwards to avoid a car, tree or rock, you do NOT want the car to start aiming inwards directly at it. As I've written about before, I've already slid past a Jeep once with the Skyactiv at opposite lock. If the car had over-rotated like it did yesterday, I would not be sitting here posting my thoughts today.
Missed this post:
Running that stiff of a bar on top of stiff springs is why it is feeling like it is. Reason why most people run a stiff bar is when they can't change their rear springs or don't want a rate that high for daily driving.
I run the tripoint on the stock springs for autox where I can't change my springs due to rules. With coilovers I would probably have to go down to either a weaker bar or lighter springs and changed dampening settings to account for lighter springs.
Not nearly the same car but I found similar results on my 300zx TT with coilovers at the 8/6k f/r and I switched back to stock sway bars. It felt nice to not have it roll in corners when it was clean. But most roads in chicago are heaved from ice or have potholes which lent to it making me feel uneasy about it.
I would question braking in the middle of the turn unless you are trying to trail brake which is mostly used to help the car rotate better which it seems isn't really the issue with the setup at this point.
Mostly agree, and as of this moment the CS 24mm sway is back on the car. It has worked well. As you probably realized, I am trail braking a good bit. It has less to do with rotation and more with avoiding momentum loss too early, given that I can only muster so much speed via the engine before I enter a turn.